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| 1 | +--- |
| 2 | +layout: default |
| 3 | +title: 2025-09-08 CF Conventions Committee and Standard Names Committee meeting |
| 4 | +--- |
| 5 | +# 2025-09-08 CF Conventions Committee and Standard Names Committee meeting |
| 6 | + |
| 7 | +## Attendees |
| 8 | + |
| 9 | +Jonathan, David, Luke, Roy, Daniel, Lars, Seth, Fran, Karl, Chris, Alison |
| 10 | + |
| 11 | +## Membership changes |
| 12 | + |
| 13 | +- Roy: Announced retirement plans (started with the organization in 2004, remaining available for questions) |
| 14 | +- Ellie: Submitted resignation due to starting PhD program (time constraints, not lack of interest) |
| 15 | + |
| 16 | +## Consolidated Rules/Contributing Guidelines |
| 17 | +- Still pending completion (Jonathan delayed due to work on anomalies and leap seconds) - Issue https://github.com/cf-convention/cf-conventions/issues/369 |
| 18 | + |
| 19 | +## Meeting Minutes Publication |
| 20 | +- Current gap in published summaries (last published: 2025-01-27, previous: 2023-09-29) |
| 21 | +- Decision needed on format: detailed internal records vs. brief public summaries |
| 22 | +- Agreed to explore using LLM (Claude.ai) for summary generation |
| 23 | +- Current minutes published at: https://cfconventions.org/Committees/Conventions_and_Standard_Names/committee_meeting_minutes.html |
| 24 | + |
| 25 | +## CF Workshop Preparation (Tuesday 15:10 UTC) |
| 26 | + |
| 27 | +- Presenter: TBD |
| 28 | +- Couple of slides only (time constraints) |
| 29 | +- Possible content: |
| 30 | + - Noteworthy developments from the past year |
| 31 | + - CF governance structure and community leadership |
| 32 | + - Consensus and change management processes |
| 33 | + - Reminder of different repositories (vocabularies, discussions, cf-conventions) |
| 34 | + - How we agree to changes/consensus/revisiting changes |
| 35 | + - Do folk know how CF is governed? That it's community led, etc. |
| 36 | +- **Action Item**: David to start shared slide deck |
| 37 | + |
| 38 | +## Lake Variables Standard Names |
| 39 | + |
| 40 | +- Standard names for lake variables requiring new approach to naming conventions: https://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/25 |
| 41 | +- This issue could use aliases, but this is a different type of alias than we’ve used in the past \- i.e. it's an alternative (synonym, alias that is not deprecated) |
| 42 | +- Aliases are used to deprecate names (better idea, deepened understanding), this is a different concept. |
| 43 | +- Bringing in a new concept (synonym) during a huge transition change is a challenge and may not be a good idea. |
| 44 | +- Could make them aliases, and add a new XML tag to indicate "synonym". Is that less disruptive …? |
| 45 | + - This could be confusing (i.e. an alias that is not really an alias\!) |
| 46 | + - Better to introduce (whenever appropriate \- no or later) the new thing \- synonym |
| 47 | +- To re-purpose aliases "would be a disaster" (as it would confuse downstream applications on what is/isn’t a true deprecation). |
| 48 | +- One physical concept with 3 different names (that can be considered the same for intercomparison purposes \- sea\_water, inland\_water, sea\_or\_inland\_water) |
| 49 | + - An alias is *not* a separate entry in the table to its parent name. But we don’t want our new names to be “normal” aliases. |
| 50 | +- Even adding a tag to alias is tricky, as the information needs to propagate through all sorts of systems (CF editor, website, ….) |
| 51 | +- How would you refer to sea water and *not* inland water?: |
| 52 | + - Uses cell methods with an area type |
| 53 | + - This proposal is for standard names only \- not area types |
| 54 | +- What do we call an estuary? \- that’s a case where we don’t want to decide\! |
| 55 | +- What do you call a continuous measurement that starts in a lake, goes down a river and out into the ocean? |
| 56 | + - sea\_or\_inland\_water |
| 57 | +- Are there any use cases where sea\_or\_inland\_water would cause problems, that we can think of? |
| 58 | +- This is similar territory to open sea and sea ice |
| 59 | +- Label "synonym" could be tricky, because it has baggage in the semantics community. |
| 60 | +- Useful discussion, that shows we don’t know yet how to technically implement the agreed solution. |
| 61 | + - Need to minimise headaches to the maximum number of people\! |
| 62 | +- Jonathan to post on issue that the principle is agreed, but the implementation requires further technical discussion possible off-line working group …) |
| 63 | + |
| 64 | +## Actions |
| 65 | +1. **David**: Create shared slide deck for CF workshop presentation |
| 66 | +2. **Jonathan**: Post on GitHub issue https://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/255 regarding agreed principle and need for technical implementation discussion |
| 67 | +3. **Committee**: Determine CF workshop presenter |
| 68 | +4. **Committee**: Review and approve LLM-generated meeting summaries before publication |
| 69 | +5. **Jonathan**: Complete consolidated rules/contributing guidelines when time permits |
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