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@CTimmerman
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Fixes #8454

@Hanmac
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Hanmac commented Aug 19, 2025

that ignores the comment above:

if a mana ability has a mana cost the AI will miscalculate

@CTimmerman
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The AI seems to work fine in my screenshot, so how does it miscalculate?

@Hanmac
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Hanmac commented Aug 19, 2025

For example, there is currently the problem with cards like Scene of the Crime, with two mana abilties like this:

{T}: Add {C}.
{T}, Tap an untapped creature you control: Add one mana of any color.

effects like this could cause the Auto Tapper to make more mana than it should

=
But the check for ManaCost on ManaAbility are most likely for stuff like: Manaforge Cinder, that has:

{1}: Add {B} or {R}. Activate no more than three times each turn.

@CTimmerman
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effects like this could cause the Auto Tapper to make more mana than it should

Because one card has two mana abilities?

{1}: Add {B} or {R}. Activate no more than three times each turn.

So the limit of three times is not enforced yet? Or will the AI waste all mana on making B or R?

If other mana producers are still problematic, a check for "AI:RemoveDeck:All" should suffice.

@Hanmac
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Hanmac commented Aug 19, 2025

effects like this could cause the Auto Tapper to make more mana than it should

Because one card has two mana abilities?

Not really. It can fail in this example:
Llanowar Elves
Scene of the Crime

Now if you want to cast something that cost {G}{G}, the auto tapper might try to get the second G from the Scene of the Crime, while tapping the Elves again. It fails, of course, but in reverting, it doesn't clean up all the right mana abilities.
Leaving you with extra Mana.

@Hanmac
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Hanmac commented Aug 19, 2025

So the limit of three times is not enforced yet? Or will the AI waste all mana on making B or R?

It isn't about the limit. Bog Initiate can cause this too:

{1}: Add {B}.

the problem there is that if AI wants to get B Mana via this Ability it might miscalculate that it needs extra {1} again

@Hanmac Hanmac requested review from Agetian and tehdiplomat August 19, 2025 13:31
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This isn‘t a real fix
Avoiding cheating is a higher priority

@tehdiplomat
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Signets need to have tests written around them to validate their changes. But I agree this doesn't seem to actually fix anything

@CTimmerman
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getAvailableManaEstimate thinks Arcane Signet produces 2 mana. I'm not even testing in Commander.

image

Decks:

[metadata]
Name=test_signets
[Main]
1 Azorius Signet|KHC|[97]
1 Boros Signet|GK1|[97]
1 Dimir Signet|GK1|[22]
1 Golgari Signet|ONC|[131]
1 Gruul Signet|GK2|[103]
1 Izzet Signet|GK1|[46]
1 Nirkana Revenant|ROE|[120]
1 Orzhov Signet|AA1|[9]
1 Rakdos Signet|C20|[249]
1 Selesnya Signet|RVR|[267]
1 Simic Signet|MKC|[236]
9 Swamp|PO2|[157]
[metadata]
Name=test_signets2
[Main]
1 Arcane Signet|PLST|[OTC-252]
1 Azorius Signet|RVR|[250]
1 Black Lotus|2ED|[233]
1 Blacker Lotus|SLD|[F869]
1 Bog Initiate|INV|[95]
1 Boros Signet|PRM|[62393]
1 Dimir Signet|PRM|[62435]
1 Dirtwater Wraith|PLST|[MIR-117]
1 Golgari Signet|TD0|[A112]
1 Gruul Signet|PLST|[C16-256]
1 Izzet Signet|PLST|[MM3-223]
1 Llanowar Elves|FDN|[439]
1 Orzhov Signet|PRM|[62399]
1 Rakdos Signet|TD0|[A116]
1 Scene of the Crime|MKM|[267]
1 Selesnya Signet|TD0|[A118]
1 Simic Signet|TD0|[A119]
1 Sol Ring|3ED|[274]

@CTimmerman CTimmerman marked this pull request as draft November 9, 2025 00:10
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Most Signets don't work

4 participants